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HomeHomeDiscussionsDiscussionsQuestion of the...Question of the...Are Prophets and Apostles for todayAre Prophets and Apostles for today's church?
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6/14/2010 8:23 AM
 
Well each believer has the Holy Spirit and He certainly can convict, guide, encourage and teach us. If I feel led to give an encouraging word to a sister and that word brings her comfort... I think that it not a word from God, but rather it is the Holy Spirit using a common means to encourage a fellow saint. My words are just a common means, but the comfort, conviction, guidance, etc... anything that is useful from them is only because the Spirit uses them as a tool.

Technically I guess every believer is a "prophet" when we speak the words of Scripture -- but I still just don't see a biblical argument that the office of prophet is valid for today. If it is... then we have an incomplete Bible! As it says at the end of Revelation -- nothing should be added or subtracted from the Word, so I think it's all there. Now as to how that Revelation works itself out in our daily lives... well that's the wild and wondrous beauty of being a Christian!
 
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6/14/2010 11:40 AM
 

How do you explain when a prophet speaks today and the word spoken comes to pass? That is the test of a prophet and there are prophetic words given in charismatic circles that prove to be very accurate. We can debate from Scripture all day...but, if God is moving through people to prophecy and it meets biblical guidelines then are we to say it isn't God? I doubt seriously if every word ever prophesied in the old testament was recorded in Scripture...only that which was necessary for the entire church to see.

Why would God heal today? Under this logic, shouldn't every miracle have been conducted in the New Testament. Are we to say that people miraculously healed today are fake?

God is the same yesterday, today and forever. He will not allow Himself to be put in a box. If people prophesy something counter to Scripture, then there is a problem. However, if God lays a Word on my heart that does not counter Scripture and it comes to pass then I have prophesied from my God who lives. That doesn't mean I have added to Scripture or even attempted to.

Again, I ask...how do you explain when a prophet speaks today and the word spoken comes to pass? It happens often.

 
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6/14/2010 2:20 PM
 

Of course not every word uttered in times past were captured in scripture, but I feel pretty confident that the ones God wanted recorded for His purposes were. With that said... we need to really examine the office of the Prophet. Prophets did a lot more than simply tell the future. They seemed to fill the role the Holy Spirit fills today. Moses, for example, spoke with God and mediated between God and the people --- Moses presented law and exacted judgement on the Israelites when they would fail -- he also interceded for them continually pleading for mercy for them (often when they were too stiff necked to realize they needed mercy!) He also oversaw the building of the temple... he was not the priest, but as a prophet he was there to ensure that God's requests were fulfilled for the building of such a holy place.

Now Baalam on the other hand was a soothe sayer. He had many words of his own come true and come to pass. That didn't make him a prophet of God though. There has to more to the litmus test than simply stating something that comes to pass in order to be called a prophet. Again, we need to look at the actual office held, its purpose and whether the appearance, death, resurrection and ascension of Christ -- and then of course the appearance of the Holy Spirit left the office fulfilled (not obsolete) or not.

Prophets of the Old Testament and the main NT Prophet, Christ Himself, would foretell future events, but for the reason of Glorifying God. I would say if any healing takes place and if any miracles occur today the only purpose such things would have would be to glorify Jesus Christ. The work of the Holy Spirit is awesome and wonderful, and everything the Spirit does glorifies the Lord and the Lord alone... so that would be the purpose of such occurrences today.

It's a good thought provoking discussion though. I had actually attended a very Charismatic Church for several years when I was a new believer, so the things you are talking about I really understand on a personal level. Thanks for discussing this in a way that causes me to have to dig and search out the scriptures and my own heart.

 
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6/14/2010 3:50 PM
 

As to John MacArthur's "calling" to preach, Martin Luther explained the concept rather well in his commentary on the epistle to the Galatians. It is neither "prophetic" nor "special revelation." As to prophets whose "fore telling" is "very accurate," that is not the Biblical test of a "true prophet" that requires "everything he says comes to pass." After one reads "Satan" by Dr. Lewis Sperry Chafer or "War on the Saints" by Jesse Penn Lewis the "explanation" will be rather stark. We let Holy Scripture define our experience and never the other way around. It is the latter that caused Jonathan Edwards to write "The Religious Affections" wherein he irrefutably defined the counterfeit. If one assumes that every voice is of the Lord, then deception abounds, reprobate minds continue to receive the wrath of God inflicted, and the nations suffer because of sin. If God lays a word on our hearts, it is by exact defintion called "illumination." If I share this light with someone else it is called "exortation." Perhaps this is why Christ warned us to make sure the light we see isn't really darkness? God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow! However, there are different dispensations and different covenants (depending on your theology). Even today 85% of those polled say they are Christians. How does this fare with straight is the gate and narrow the way? What is the deception? That "I" can live when Scripture says it is no longer "I".

 
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6/17/2010 2:30 PM
 

Bob, I agree...the Word of God defines the experience and I know many charismatic pastors who agree wholeheartedly. When a voice is heard that does not conform with Scripture it is cast out by these men as not being of God. But, God did not cease communicating with his people through supernatural means because He gave us the Bible. To believe so leans towards a deist thought process wherein he is real involved and then backs away. Furthermore, who definition is "illumination"? I don't recall that word being used in Scripture unless it is speaking of a room. In your framework that has been created to match your theology, it may well indeed be called exhortation. However, exhortation in my mind is when you do indeed speak from scriptural principles into someone's life or into a church's life. Prophecy is when you hear an exact word from God for a situation and speak that forth.

As to your Martin Luther quote I must ask, "What is your point?" One person's quote does not make it the final word on Scripture. Timothy received his calling based on prophecy. Let's remember that Martin Luther also didn't believe that James or Esther belonged in Scripture. I certainly admire the life and writings of Martin Luther but hardly consider him authoritative as the last word on Scriptural interpretation. .

 
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